"RANTS" Archive

What's Wrong with Nice Guys?

The Manipulator Files
Heartless Bitches International
Deal With It!

HEARTLESS BITCHSTUFF

Check out our ONLINE Storefront! Gifts for yourself and the Heartless Bitches in your life!

How to be a Compleat Dweeb In 14 Emails or Less...

Every once in a while someone gets it in his or her head to "reform" me, or my site. At best the attempts are laughable, at worst, pathetic. Mostly, I ignore them, or send them on to my cohorts for shared amusement. But this series warranted posting to the site. It was just too good to pass up.

You have to realize that ALL (14!) of these emails came unsolicited. I responded to just one, and that was after I had received 5 or 6 already. This guy is on a self-admitted "crusade" to improve me and HBI. At one point he even talked of having me removed from the membership. *hee* What a Maroon!. Ironically, he is a shining example of many of the characteristics discussed in the article on Manipulators. An article to which he, understandably, took the greatest exception.

Apparently, this attention-starved loon got bugged by the fact that I wouldn't pay any attention to him, after all his "efforts", so he sent me THIS.

Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 23:49:06 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: different kinds of bitches

Hi there. The reason that I am writing is to make some constructive
comments on your webpage, and what you are doing there.

In my initial glances at your webpage, I mistakingly [the
operative and overriding word here...]
thought that it may
have been something political. An attempt at feminism? Trying to get
women to stand up for themselves a bit more? But of course, it is not.
[but of course, YOU would know best]
If it was something political, then you would have been careful not to
have said anything destructive or harmful. And you would have made sure
to get your facts straight on as many issues as you could. Although some
of your page is informative, the majority of it is merely rash
generalised statements, which unfairly criticise others [like me]. Things like
that which tend to lead to people "getting the wrong idea". [like, maybe
guys like me are jerks, and we wouldn't want THAT!
]


I got sent your webpage address by a girl who I was until recently
seriously involved with. She calls herself a bitch. I call her a bitch.
[But what does she call YOU, we wonder?]

The nature of our relationship. [What makes him think I CARE?] I
knew her for nearly a year, we were friends, then we shared in something
special [Ahhh... she got drunk and fucked him?], and she decided that we
had to have a relationship cos of it. I didn't want any relationship,
but she kept going on and on about how it was "meant to be", how right
it was, etc etc blah blah blah. But then she made a bunch of offers to
do all this great stuff for me, so I felt kinda sorry for her. [oh, what a
BIG MAN - Gonna do the "mercy fuck relationship" thing. And this
guy later claims to be trained as a psychologist? ROTFL!!!]
I even
thought, well, maybe I do love her. Heck, who am I to say. [PRECISELY. Who ARE
you to say anything? And why do you think I would want to hear it?]
It seemed
nice so I went with it. [and she gave good head]

Then, wouldn't you believe it [Yes, I would], she cheated on me [Big surprise].
I found her with some other guy, like a week after she'd made all of these promises.
[bummer. But then, you're a psychologist, so you should be a GREAT judge of character, right?]
She even said how she was going to go off with him, but changed her mind and came
back to me. Oh great, wow. Never said sorry or anything. Even went on
about how I should feel sorry for her that she was such a selfish bitch.
For some reason, nice guy [with an over-inflated sense of my own self-importance]
that I am, I gave her a chance. But then, she is oh so busy. [Possibly because you
are a controlling, irritating dweeb?]
She gets this new roommate, only
knew him a few days.
Then she isn't there at all, and is upset at me for daring to ask her
for a few minutes of her time on something urgent. And then, top it all
off, when I was telling her off for all the shit she was pulling, she
decides that *I* have been abusive, and suddenly she is engaged to this
guy and trying to have a kid just to hurt me.[how big can this guy's ego get?
Like she would be trying to conceive a child JUST to get back at HIM? Talk about
delusional!]


Now, that is a bitch. [And you are a dupe, so you're even.] Okay. Is that
the kind of behaviour that you want to promote with your little page? [ooooh. That
hurt. My "little" page. I'm wounded...]
You want to tell girls, hey, treat
people however the hell you like, because you have a right to.[Uh, no. That's
NOT what HBI says, but men with a mission such as yourself are not going to
get the message no matter how it's transmitted.]
You are a
woman. And heck, I guess some of your members are man-haters, and
probably think that guys don't have any rights. I even saw that you said
that there were no mens groups. [This guy makes specious references but never
backs them up - then later, (keep reading) he accuses ME of trying to obsfuscate by
quoting line-by-line. What a maroon!]
Sheesh. There are. You think that just
cos of one little thing like which sex you are that it makes you a good
or bad person? All guys are horrible. Yeah. Thats right.
[no sweetie, but I think YOU are an idiot. Does that make you feel better?
Does it make your flame of self-righteousness burn a little hotter? Glad to
be of service.]


Now, I love strong women.[As long as they don't stand up to me. Why can I
just see the "but" coming...?]
I cannot stand for weak pathetic little girls.
I love women who can take care of themselves. Girls who won't put up
with shit, and especially who won't be treated as lesser human beings. I
really wish that all girls were like that.[But the ones who ARE like that avoid
you like the plague.]


But [I KNEW it was coming] what I hate more than anything is girls who
claim to be in the same category yet act really abusively [they tell me to
Piss Off far too often!\
]
. Bitches.[Damn those Bitches!] Some who
are strong women, standing up for themselves. And others who use the word "bitch" as an
excuse to treat people like shit. An excuse. Stupid idiots who would use
anything as an excuse. The kind of people who ruin the feminist
movement. Who ruin just about any movement [bowel?] just because they are selfish
shit heads.[Yep. That's us - wreckers of feminism.]

I saw in your pages a lot of really great, positive stuff. That editor
who was commenting back about girls who were too bitchy, and really were
just idiots, I found particularly wonderful. But I also saw a lot of
negative stuff.[Why is every so-called "compliment" always followed by
a criticism? Is this a technique? A MANIPULATIVE technique...?]


One particular comment was manipulator.html. That was one that I would
object to most severely.[Ah Ha! We wonder why...?]

You said in there number 6) - He rationalises his power-tripping as
"altruistic". Now, in that you said that guys who help others out are in
fact doing it for their own power trips. Get a grip! You want people to
stop being nice to you?[Clearly someone who can't make the distinction
between being NICE and being controlling. Someone who perhaps rationalizes
his "telling" another person how to live his/her life as being "nice"?]


Look, I have dealt with this kind of shit a lot before.[Ahhh... "a lot"
So more than one person has accused you of being controlling and manipulative.
Is there a message here? Seems like the only common denominator is YOU. Maybe
you should start LISTENING rather than selectively hearing?]
When I go out of
my way to help people. People begging and pleading. "Ohh I need your
help really badly, please please I will be most grateful". I go out and
help them, and then cos I am so great I get it done for them. Yippee.
Hang on, where's my thanks? Oh no, you are supposed to do things out of
the goodness of your heart. Yeah right. So I just gotta accept it.
[Yep, you are one altruistic bastard, alright.]
People are selfish shitheads. And then, later on, I get them coming
after me saying shit like how I had been the cause of all of their
problems? Even the stuff that I had helped them with. Oh yeah, I caused
it. People actually say that. [Funny, I NEVER get people saying I caused
all their problems. But then *I* don't try to run their lives.]


And you are saying in there that you should avoid that kind of shit? [I'm
saying that people should avoid EXACTLY the kind of shit you dish out. Your
self image is highly distorted. I'd LOVE to talk to some of your accusers.]

Get real. [You should take your own advice, pal.] The kind of shit that
you have to avoid are the guys who are actually abusing you. Not the ones who
are trying to help you. [Unasked for "help" IS abuse ("I was just HELPING her
into the car when she hit her head"), or at the very least, harassment - if the person
tells you to piss off and you keep carrying on.)]
That is, like I said before,
a different kind of bitch.[And of course, you are eminently qualified to be the judge.]

Have you ever thought for a moment why these girls are claiming to be
being manipulated?[Um, because some control freak is trying to run their lives?]
They are obviously really weak little girls [Oh! Silly weak lil 'ole me
for not realizing that!]
if they are able to be manipulated like that.
[Clearly someone unable to make the distinction between RECOGNIZING
a manipulator and allowing one to get control.]
And maybe, hey, maybe the guy was
actually trying to help them? Wow. Yet there you are, trying to tell
them to stand up and abuse the guy who is treating them well?[Is this what
you tell the women you are trying to "help" with your unsolicited advice?]

That is the kind of shit that you are supporting there.

I don't know if you care about this stuff.[Yep. I do. That's why I wrote
the article. To expose jerks like you.]
Heck, you have a really big
site, which is probably popular too. Nice and easy to be popular by
saying popularistic, generalised things without taking the time to think
about them, to prove them or to justify any of it.[Darling, you are proving
my points brilliantly. Keep it up.]
But hey, that means
you can do whatever you like right? [Damn straight. After all, it's MY site]
All under the guise of being a bitch.

Whatever. Your site has its good points. [Mr. Generousity!] And
maybe you don't care about the bad points.[I don't care about commentary
from misguided idiots on "crusades". And I don't mistake their ramblings for
legitimate criticism.]

You could go through and clean it up. Get rid of all of
the uneducated destructive bullshit and leave the really good stuff.[With,
of course, YOU deciding what constitutes, "good", right?]
Or
heck, put the uneducated shit in a different section, titled "uneducated
shit".[How creatively magnanamous of you.] Or you can stick your
finger up at me too if you like. [or YOU could stick your finger up your
ass where it would probably do more good than typing this to me. Might
release some tension in that sphincter.]
Maybe, oh my, because I am a
guy? That gives you a reason to hate me doesn't it?

Nope. I lack respect
for you because you are a pompous buffoon. To HATE you I would actually
have to CARE about you. Which I don't.] Or because I got off my butt to
try to do something? [You typed all those emails standing up?]

Popularity versus integrity. A tough choice. Its your decision.
[Reality versus those nice pink pills. A tough choice. It's your decision.]
Cat

P.S. The e-mail here is one which is jointly owned by males and females.
Not much point including it there. Plus it is a business e-mail addy.

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 01:59:39 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: Emotional Blackmailer article

In short, please take down your page. It is inaccurate, destructive and
gives those who listen to it very destructive viewpoints.
[translation: I'm afraid that women who know me might see it.]

Your article is full of generalised popularistic statements. Sure, some
girls do become emotionally abused. And like you said, some guys too.
But what you have said here does not help their cases at all.
[wah, fucking wah.]

Girls who read this might happen to actually work out that they are
being emotionally abused and stand up for themselves. But due to the
inaccuracies of it, they are just as likely to start abusing someone who
really cares about it.[Huh? That didn't scan...]

And those guys who really are abusing girls might end up being scared.
[And this is a bad thing?]
But once again, cos of the inaccuracies of it, pretty much all guys will
be scared of it.[And he accuses ME of "generalised" statements. This
Dweebus is the only man who has emailed me complaing about this particular
article.]


Refer to a seperate article written on the self-same topic in
heartless-bitches.com, which is actually reasonably accurate. Suze's
guide to avoiding the emotional blackmailer. That one is also a little
inaccurate, but it is at least reasonably positive. Look at that and
spot the differences.[Look at this email and spot the moron!]

Have you ever wondered why a woman ( or a man ) ends up being
"manipulated"? I mean, is it perhaps because the guy was so cunning and
clever to abuse them? Or was it, hey, that the girl was just a weak,
naive, stupid little girl. [Oh, THAT'S choice. If he's a jerk, it's HER fault. No, it's her responsibility to get the hell out... but she is NOT responsible for him behaving like a creep.]

Instead of encouraging hatred, wouldn't it be better if you encouraged
girls to become stronger? [Funny, that's what I thought we were doing!]
So that they don't end up being manipulated in the first place.
[My thoughts exactly. Which is why the article exists.]
Some of your inaccuracies are stated as facts. I refer to:

1) He has a lot of psycho-babble on his bookshelves.

- Hey, are you saying that all psychologists/psychiatrists are emotional
manipulators? That it is somehow wrong to try to work things out for
people? [Talk about twisting things around! We were talking about people who USE psychology to manipulate others, NOT about professionals whose job it is to assist people WHO COME TO THEM for help. Of course there ARE people in the profession who are idiots, but the article was not referring to professionals.]

6) He rationalizes his power tripping as "altruistic".

- Have you ever wondered that perhaps there are some people out there
that are really trying to be good to others? Ever thought that maybe
there are some who are trying to be kind and giving. Sure, they aren't
going to be perfect, but you saying that this necessarily equates to
"power-tripping" would seem to discourage anyone from trying to be nice
to anyone else. [People who are seriously interested in "helping" others
DON'T try to tell them how to live their lives, UNSOLICITED, and they DON'T
persist in "doing things" for another person when they haven't been asked to,
and the recipient is clearly uncomfortable with the "help". It would seem
based on your own complete lack of comprehension in this area, that you are
guilty of the very behavior the article warns people about. I guess we struck a
raw nerve...]
Do you like hatred? [Do you like being an idiot? I mean,
does this kind of blind obsfuscation and deliberate "missing the point"
occur naturally, or do you really have to work at it?]


7) He can't handle you disagreeing with him

- Well, come on, you are trying to make another grey area appear black
and white. How many people, male or female, do you find saying stuff
like "Oh yes, you are right, I have been such a fool". [Plenty. But then,
I prefer to have relationships with mature adults.]
Yeah, we all do
it sometimes, but we also sometimes stand up for our ideas. You are
trying to make women become more powerful by forcing men to become weak.
Please stop this man hating.
[What a load of CRAP! "Don't disagree with me sweety - it's manhating!".
Listen bub, if a guy is a mature, caring person, then if you disagree with him, and he still thinks HIS side is right, he will agree to disagree. He WON'T try
to ram his point of view down your throat until you swallow it, and he won't SULK
or belittle you if you don't.]


8) He asks for your opinion so he can shoot it down

- Maybe, hey, he actually cared. Ever thought that maybe you were taking
it all the wrong way, weren't listening? [Classic Manipulator stance. Are you
paying attention folks?]
Or that maybe if you stood up
for yourself a bit more that he wouldn't be able to "shoot it down".
[Another case of "if HE'S being a jerk, it's YOUR fault." Lovely logic, eh?
And clearly someone who can't make the distinction between being a jerk,
and being a decent human being.]
I mean really, have you ever seen any strong-minded person ever get their
good ideas shot down? [Yep. ] No. You are just trying to give women an excuse
for being weak-willed here. Don't.

----

Yes, you will notice that I did not include all of it. Some of your
article was reasonably accurate and informative. But please could you
correct those gross inaccuracies, or really, preferably, just take the
page down.

I don't know what kinds of responsibilities you are accepting for the
article, or that heartless bitches accept for the page itself ( or the
concept ). Some of it seems to be politically based, trying to help
women. Yet others, like yours, seem to be simply used as an excuse for
women to get out their hatred.

Your article was full of sexist, false, male-hating statements.

I have had women call me an emotional blackmailer, for the simple reason
that you know that I haven't done anything to hurt anyone. It is a neato
little excuse. Convenient. Oh yeah, you think you see him treating me
well. You even go into our private lives and it still seems great. But
really, there is some deep-seated conspiracy. Some great emotional
blackmail.

Get real. The term "emotional blackmail" refers to an intangible
occurance. A grey area. You cannot define it as proven or disproven, and
simply trying to put numbers on there for how to identify it is just
going to hurt things.

Even if you genuinely feel that you have been emotionally blackmailed,
it does not mean that you have actually been emotionally blackmailed, or
even if it was, that it was done on purpose. It is a grey area. Like
harassment. Please do not state these things as facts when they are not.

A good replacement article could be "how to be strong enough to avoid
emotional blackmailers". Much better type of thing. Try it. Channel your
energy into something positive.

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998
From: nataliep@heartless-bitches.com
Subject: Re: Emotional Blackmailer article

> In short, please take down your page. It is inaccurate, destructive and
> gives those who listen to it very destructive viewpoints.

My, my, my... I guess it cut a little too close to the bone, eh?

> Your article is full of generalised popularistic statements. Sure, some
> girls do become emotionally abused. And like you said, some guys too.
> But what you have said here does not help their cases at all.

The article is entirely accurate, and clearly hits the nail on the head.

> Girls who read this might happen to actually work out that they are
> being emotionally abused and stand up for themselves.

A possibility which you find threatening?

> But due to the
> inaccuracies of it, they are just as likely to start abusing someone who
> really cares about it.

Cares about "it"? Not "her" or "him"? Objectifying a little are we?
Freudian slip?

> And those guys who really are abusing girls might end up being scared.
> But once again, cos of the inaccuracies of it, pretty much all guys will
> be scared of it.

The only men threatened by that article are the ones that see themselves
in it and don't like to see their own reflection so glaringly displayed.

> Have you ever wondered why a woman ( or a man ) ends up being
> "manipulated"? I mean, is it perhaps because the guy was so cunning and
> clever to abuse them? Or was it, hey, that the girl was just a weak,
> naive, stupid little girl.

It takes two to tango. However, some women get emotionally manipulated
because of societal "roles" and social conditioning. They think that is how
it is "supposed" to be. Enlightenment works wonders on some individuals.

> Instead of encouraging hatred, wouldn't it be better if you encouraged
> girls to become stronger? So that they don't end up being manipulated in
> the first place.

The article encourages people to dump losers and assholes. I'd say that's
encouraging women to become stronger. It says nothing about generalized
hatred.

> Some of your inaccuracies are stated as facts. I refer to:
>
> 1) He has a lot of psycho-babble on his bookshelves.
>
> - Hey, are you saying that all psychologists/psychiatrists are emotional
> manipulators? That it is somehow wrong to try to work things out for
> people?

I didn't refer to psychologists or other professionals. I referred to the
"armchair" kind who makes it his hobby to dig into other people's psyches
for the purpose of controlling them.

> 6) He rationalizes his power tripping as "altruistic".
>
> - Have you ever wondered that perhaps there are some people out there
> that are really trying to be good to others?

Oooooh. This one really hit a nerve, didn't it? I'll try and make it more
plain so that it penetrates your thick skull: People who try to direct other
people's lives, tell them what to do, how to live, how to think, how to dress,
what career they should pursue, who their friends should be, etc ---
are CONTROLLING and manipulative - ESPECIALLY if they try to guilt,
embarrass, or push the other person into a mold or behavior that *they*
deem acceptable. If you respect and care for another person, you may
make suggestions *when asked*, or help with assistance *when asked*, but
if the suggestion is not taken or is not accepted, then you back off and
let that person run his/her life. You let them make their own mistakes.
If you can't respect their decisions, or if they use your good nature and you
find yourself doing things for them without any recognition or respect, you
have the choice of terminating the relationship. Manipulators use their
relationship with a person to pressure them into behaving as *they* see fit.

Your whinging about being "used" by some girl (in your earlier letter) is your
own problem. Don't want to get "used"? Don't be a doormat. If you are
*truly* being altruistic, you won't expect anything in return.

> 7) He can't handle you disagreeing with him
>
> - Well, come on, you are trying to make another grey area appear black
> and white. How many people, male or female, do you find saying stuff
> like "Oh yes, you are right, I have been such a fool".

Mature, responsible adults are quite capable of it. I have said it myself,
and I have witnessed it.

Your hostility would indicate that you have difficulty in this area. I suggest
you try growing up. It works wonders.

>Yeah, we all do
> it sometimes, but we also sometimes stand up for our ideas. You are
> trying to make women become more powerful by forcing men to become weak.
> Please stop this man hating.

Oh lovely - what a completely irrational argument, but wholly expected from
someone who uses "manipulation" as a tool. If I comment on someone
who can never admit he's wrong or understand a differing argument, it's
"man hating". That is just so laughable, I'll have to share it! You slay me!

> 8) He asks for your opinion so he can shoot it down
>
> - Maybe, hey, he actually cared. Ever thought that maybe you were taking
> it all the wrong way, weren't listening? Or that maybe if you stood up
> for yourself a bit more that he wouldn't be able to "shoot it down".

*rotfl* Another moronic and poorly-directed statement. Translation: If HE acts
like a jerk, it must be HER fault for being weak. Nice little deflection of
responsibility. Not.

It doesn't matter how much one stands up for onesself, assholes will
still try to "shoot down" arguments - often with ad hominem or irrational
statements (like the one you made above). It doesn't mean we accept their
comments as valid. You, are a case in point. Nothing you say sways me in
the slightest. I am very well grounded. It doesn't stop *you* from making
idiotic statements and trying to pass them off as logic, however.

> Yes, you will notice that I did not include all of it. Some of your
> article was reasonably accurate and informative. But please could you
> correct those gross inaccuracies, or really, preferably, just take the
> page down.

No. *laugh*. Your letter just reinforces the fact that the article is
pointedly "on target". *You* are a shining example. A "martyr" when
not appreciated, hostile and defensive when challenged. And you use
stereotypical phrases like "man hating" (I would posit that it works on a lot of
women, but not me) when you feel threatened by a rational argument.

> Your article was full of sexist, false, male-hating statements.

Ooooh. There's all those classic words again - designed to make me quail
in the face of being accused of "man bashing" - I might NEVER get laid!
No man will ever want me! Oh, me, oh my! Whatever will I do?!!!
Thank-you for showing me the error of my weak-willed female ways!
*SNORT*

The article was full of big, scary truths for you, wasn't it?

> I have had women call me an emotional blackmailer, for the simple reason
> that you know that I haven't done anything to hurt anyone.

"Women" - plural. More than one. Maybe you should start listening?

*I* don't know anything about your past relationships except what you
detailed in that long and rambling whine previously. I'll bet your ex's
would have a different story to tell...

>It is a neato
> little excuse. Convenient. Oh yeah, you think you see him treating me
> well. You even go into our private lives and it still seems great. But
> really, there is some deep-seated conspiracy. Some great emotional
> blackmail.

People who are being emotionally blackmailed are NOT happy, even though
they have a seemingly "supportive" partner by external standards. That is
one of the first signs. Happy people don't look for reasons to terminate
their relationships. People in good, well-grounded, mutually compatible
relationships don't read an article like this and suddenly decide to break
up with their partner.

> Get real. The term "emotional blackmail" refers to an intangible
> occurance. A grey area. You cannot define it as proven or disproven,

You wish.

>and
> simply trying to put numbers on there for how to identify it is just
> going to hurt things.

And limit the number of women who would put up with guys like you...

> Even if you genuinely feel that you have been emotionally blackmailed,
> it does not mean that you have actually been emotionally blackmailed,

Ok. So YOU know someone else's feelings and experience better than
they do? YOU are the sole judge of the validity of their feelings?
You are hillariously stereotypical. You really are.

>or even if it was, that it was done on purpose. It is a grey area. Like
> harassment. Please do not state these things as facts when they are not.

Oh lovely. So "harassment" doesn't exist either?
What part of "NO" don't you understand?

> A good replacement article could be "how to be strong enough to avoid
> emotional blackmailers". Much better type of thing. Try it. Channel your
> energy into something positive.

Oh! I have an idea, why don't YOU write it for me? I'd love to hear your
esteemed and worldly views on this area. Clearly *I* have missed the boat
on this one. How exactly SHOULD women behave? I'm VERY interested.

heartlessly,
-Natalie

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 05:35:33 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: Janelle Brown and being a bitch

Wow! Here I was thinking you were just an ill-informed over-dramatic
idiot. But here you are actually trying to do something horrible to
someone who is trying to support people like you. Good one there. You
can't even bother to support your own people.

I've changed my mind about the heartless bitches thing. I read all the
articles, and, a couple were a bit ill-informed, but overall, it is just
you and one other editor who are complete idiots. Get rid of you two and
the rest of it is decent.

But then again. Heartless bitch. [Ring. Ring. It's the CLUE Phone...]

You are it seems the kind of woman who makes all types of feminism sound
bad. You use it as an excuse for your hatred and vengefulness. That is
what a heartless bitch is right. Someone who mistreats people constantly
without caring for any other human being.

Versus, of course, your strong woman thing which the majority of your
readers seem to support. The kind of person who cares about others, but
just doesn't want to take any shit from anyone.

Heck. Lets just use some old words. Evil. Selfish. Self-centred. Lets
not muck up any arguments with new and elaborate definitions for what
"bitch" or "heartless" or anything else REALLY means.

Like you care. I put you up on the top of my list there. As far as
people I don't know are concerned. People most deserving of the maximum
hurt possible. We'll see what shit we can lay on you, shall we? Make
your life a bit difficult?

Try treating people with some respect, then see how it gets you.

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 06:19:41 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: mail

Heh. I sent off 15 e-mails to you guys on heartless bitches. Right. I
had nothing better to do with my time than to go through them all and
pick them to pieces. Mind you, I guess I have some chance of getting
some kind of respect for that, since that is the kind of thing you try
to do. But then again, heartless bitch.

I got down to the bit about one of your responses to a mail. Well, good
old me read the whole thing. I gotta say that his mail, as listed there,
did seem pretty false. And hey, congratulations, your very first good
criticism. I got a new found respect for you. There you go. I knew you
could do it. But did you do it on purpose or did it just happen that on
this occasion you were actually being fair to people?

Heck, there are a lot of articles there. I've only read like 30 thus
far. I was just on another one of my little crusades. See if I can pull
your place apart. To help you? I guess maybe. [How very big of you]
I just didn't like the idea of what you were trying to do. [tough titty]
Oh sure, a bitches place is fine.[Oh thank-you great master for your condescension!]
Either as somewhere for complete and utter stupid bitches to go to and
complain about how much they hate men. Or as some kind of feminist
movement.[Or as a place to make fun of trolls like you?] But
what I particularly disliked was seeing both of them in the same place.
Ah, but once again, who am I to judge? [BINGO! But don't let that passing
rational thought stop you...]


I saw how you pulled that guy apart, and suddenly I got very afraid.
Laughs.

I wonder. You pulled apart some blatantly obvious stupid stories, but do
I really have anything to fear? Or do you perhaps actually go around
twisting things around a bit just to suit your own evil deeds.
Muwahahahaa. Oops, evil laugh got me there. I dunno.

Some people are really clever and can pretty quickly work out who I am.
Its not like my real name, phone number and address aren't well known to
over a million people around the world and published in hundreds of
pages on the internet. But hey, I like you guys to fish for a while
before I tell you. Then I get to see if I can get a bit of respect or
something in between. Some of the greatest laughs I have found was
people "betraying" me by telling all of these people who I *really* was,
when they already knew about it all.

So what are you going to do to me? Oh no. Uncover all of my lies? Lemmee
check. Well, maybe I am just some stupid guy or something, but I can't
see any lies in there. Oh well. I guess you can just make something up
or something. Will you publish all of my criticisms of your own page? Of
course not. That wasn't meant to be published. None of it was. If you
want me to write something for you, I will okay. But none of these
letters are intended to be published. If you actually get to the level
where I can respect you, then maybe I'll do something like that for you.

Maybe I will wake up tomorrow morning with 20 e-mails or so from all you
gals so terribly upset with me. Hey wow, my whole life could change.
Could I suddenly become famous? Oooh, lets look forward to fame and
fortune amongst the heady crowds of the heartless bitches. Lets not
forget your little backstabbing on that editor girl. Would any of them
really support you in a crunch? You don't care about any of them, and in
the end, you'll just turn on them when it suits you. Or, hang on, do you
care? Is there somewhere in your heart there for some feelings? Then
maybe, wow, you might listen to someone? Woo, who cares.

I know this kind of stuff. You'll be going through all of your little
buddies trying to threaten and intimidate me if you get at all worried.
Unable to fight back in any kind of rational way so you think that
threats etc will work. Go ahead and try it. I just got one rule tho. If
you try to do something to me, I will enact it in full on you. There you
go. Oh, go through and don't believe it. Do your little investigations
then. I don't really care if you don't you know. I just don't care.

Oh well. Its late here. 7 fun filled hours spent going through your
little webpage set. I guess I have figured that you are one of the upper
legions there. Otherwise your ass would have been wiped long ago. I
wonder what you had to do to get to that stage. Relatives? Friends?
Lovers? Don't tell me you girls like clits to the top. Laughs. That even
sounds comical to think of it. Or perhaps you threatened and ego tripped
your way to the top. Thats probably more like it.

Your investigative powers are truly amazing. It is such a pity that your
facts are so twisted. If I see anything on there about me, and someone
actually bothers to say something to me about it, its not worries to me.
All I gotta do is to show your awesome "credibility" by your other
articles there.

Ta da.

Write back will you. Thanks.

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:29:17 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: Re: Emotional Blackmailer article

I write to 15 different girls, and, as expected, 14 responded positively
to my comments, and agreed that your article was a load of crap and very
destructive. [Read: "I harrass a bunch of women I know and they tell me what I want to hear so I'll leave them alone"]

You claim that you are willing to accept responsibility for your
actions, yet you have a major blunder printed there and refuse to take
it down?

And here we are again, aiming vengeance on me simply for daring to
criticise you. Constructive criticism too. I think that that pretty much
sums up your entire reason for being involved in this movement. That you
are on a major power trip, pitting your hatred towards all others in
order to get some minor bit of satisfaction in the end.

I do apologise for calling you a man hater. The content of your article
seemed to prove that you were doing that. But in fact, from other
articles, it seems more accurately, that you hate everyone. Including
yourself? Perhaps that is why you go on about everyone else being so
terrible, because you can't stand the sight of yourself.

Sadly, all active groups have one or two members who use them for their
own little ends. It seems that you are one of the ones in this group who
is doing it here. A lot of the politically active groups which I am
involved with have similar people as yourself. It is always so annoying
having to get rid of you from there.

I am thankful that I am not involved with your heartless bitches group.
If I was, I would be embarassed to have you as a member. After I have
finished my analysis of the entire site, I will write to those people
who gave you rewards, and see what they think. Maybe some of them will
wake up to the fact that it is not a decent site.

Oh, go to http://lintilla.df.lth.se/~swantis. A little pro-lesbian,
pro-gay group known as the Rainbow Room. Delightful little place, whose
bullshit actually earned them awards. And talk to the "girl" known as
Swantis, or referred to "her" friends as Bill. Lovely little people, who
I am sure that you will get along with. An entire group who use people
to fulfill their own vengeful desires. And that one was trashed by
people who finally woke up to what shit they were pulling. Would be
great if the same thing happened with you. Or at least to get rid of you
from influencing them in any way.

Ta da.

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:16:42 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: Ego writes cheques his personality can't cash

And here I was, starting to think that you occasionally did something
right, and here you go again.

Once again, someone dares to put in a constructive criticism towards
your site. Nothing vengeful. Nothing destructive. Nothing stupid. And
here you are making stuff up again.

Ah, you have the perfect defense now. You barrage your targets with a
bunch of accusations, hoping that one of them might end up being true.
And then, if they are not, then you make something up.

You sure are funny. Am I allowed to call you Tavia now or should I call
you Natalie?[It doesn't matter to us - we know what WE call you around
here...]


Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:34:00 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: unsolicited advice

Try A-N-S-W-E-R-I-N-G questions. Not filling it full of dribble about
little stereotypes that you have. Big rash popularistic generalisations
again.[Half the time I couldn't figure out WHAT article this guy was on about - he seems to have a penchant for refusing to quote his references - like I have the whole fucking site memorized or something...]

This guy did screw up a bit in his letter, but you didn't pounce on it!
That does disappoint me quite a lot. Instead of concentrating on his
flaws, you started going on and on about stuff that didn't exist.

How about you try having a standard reply to any letters. Write a neat
little computer program. As soon as you see any words like "criticise"
or "disagree" then it can start on bitch mode. Start drivelling off
responses about some particular hatred you saw once in some movie which
you assume must be relevant to this case. Ignore actual content, just
look for the odd word or two.

Make sure to have to OR option in your program. So that if they actually
do agree with you, then you go into supportive bitch mode. Then start
automatically criticising everyone BESIDES him/her who has written to
you. Try to convince them to support you simply because you are nicer to
him/her than you are to anyone else.

There. You really don't have to read all the letters. Just a simple
little computer program. Hey, why not even publish it. SuperBitch98.
Neat little title. Probably would sell too.

Why don't you take some advice from Marc? I find that pretty laughable
too. He criticises every aspect of your behaviour, yet because he said
he supported you ( lying ), you let him put in all of that stuff. It
makes me laugh so hard to see you going on and on about shit in the same
way as everyone else in the pages is trying to prevent.

You are a true comic. Now I see why people visit the site. All to laugh
at you.

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:42:35 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: your "birth"

Tavia it shall be then. Natalie must be some kind of disguise.[Boy,
will my mother ever be surprised!]
Secret
agent Natalie reporting. You actually run the site. Ah. So then I can
say the whole site sucks. We'll just take the rest of them and put them
on somewhere with a bit more intelligence.["We" will, will we? (somebody
is suffering from delusions of competence]


Your birth story was very touching. You are actually keeping your
opinions to yourself, at least in telling that. If only it had stayed
that way...

Read up a bit on revenge feminism.[Read up a bit on the art of self-applied brain surgery]

The idea that because someone once treated you like shit gives you a
right to treat everyone like shit for the entire rest of your life.
[Does he think "everyone" is a moron like he is? After all, we only
only target the weak-minded]

Ah, then we do end up with a wonderful little society, where women
dominate. Not equality. Something where all of those little scumbags who
are called men have to bow down to female sexism. Thats what you get. A
world full of hatred.[This bozo is suffering from a serious case of
misogyny - and projecting *heavily*...]


Tavia or Natalie the power-tripping egotist has been born! Woo. Now I
see why you keep these things to webpages. Harder to sue people for
slander. And a lot easier to hide from all of the abuse. Neat little
vehicle. Are you the same in real life? Of course you are. [Damn Straight]
But you are probably wondering why nobody ever appreciates you,[Nope.
Not a problem. Projecting AGAIN, I see...]
so you need this vehicle
for your vengeance.

Ah, and here is your armchair psychology at work again. You go on and on
about it all of the time. You are the armchair psychologist, per your
own definitions. Jumping over facts to reach your own little
conclusions. Making rash generalisations about someone's state of mind,
and what they "must have meant" and "must have done".

Can you spell hypocrit? [Yes, but obviously YOU can't] Heck, just
idiot will do us. [Yep. It will do you nicely.]

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:49:28 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: blackmail.html [Boy, he just won't let this one go, will he?]

Wow, self same topic again, and once again, intelligence. What is the
difference between this article on emotional blackmail versus your
article? Why is it that this one happens to be completely factual
whereas yours was full of crap?

Simple reason - you were the author.

In order to maintain credibility, you really should delete all of those
articles which are on that site that criticise you. Oh no! Thats the
whole site! Incredibly amusing that you support an entire site which is
devoted to hating people like you. Even your own articles state how much
you hate people like yourself.[you are in a maze full of twisty little
passages that all look the same...]


Now Tavia, is there anything at all wrong with hating yourself? You
clearly do.

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:57:10 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: julie letters

Lets start teasing now. Tavia can't take criticisms. Na na na na na. You
are a huge laugh.[Boys and girls, grade school is now out, but SOME
people refuse to leave the play yard.]


You got the formula wrong on your little program there. She was
supporting you, just got confused. Ah well. What does it matter. They
support you, or they hate you? May as well screw them all.

You got 2 boyfriends. Ah lovely. Then you can't criticise any parts of
my life. Not unless you want to take those great leaps into hypocricy
again.

Nearly done with your page btw.[Thank god.]

Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:03:29 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: Fong Mi letter.

Credit where credit is due. You got lucky again here. Actually pointed
out a mis-informed idiot. Once again, throw enough accusations at
someone, and you at least have some chance of some of them being
correct.

Hey yeah, I do support the old D/s movement. Know quite a lot of really
nice dommes. And doms. She was showing a bit of a lack of information on
human nature with her comments there.

And this is the place where I see you at your calmest. When dealing with
someone who really does need to get a clue. Ah, if only the world really
was full of idiots, and then you would be happy.

Lets go hire an idiot, and then you don't need to worry.

Sexuality preferences are none of anyone's business besides yours and
your partners. I don't see why she has to go around saying stuff like
domineering women are bad or sick. Shit. Oh, and domineering men are
fine? Truth is that some people go around claiming to be great doms ( or
dommes ) just as an excuse to be really horrible to everyone. But others
actually treat others fairly.

Hey well, we'll have enough of me agreeing with you here. Thats when you
get the most upset, right? All that self-loathing again. If I compliment
you, then you get upset. I hate you, you love it. [You give yourself
Waaaaay too much credit]


How do you feel when I am laughing at you? Good?[How do you feel knowing
that I really don't give a shit? Never mind, I really don't want to know.
It's a RHETORICAL question.]


Cat


Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:05:45 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: accident?

The dweeb one is pretty real. An idiot. You got lucky again.

Keep stumbling around in the dark and occasionally you will find
something.

Cat


Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 22:03:32 +1100
From: Cat
Subject: Conclusion

Hiya Natalie. I have decided on my conclusion. Done it all. Just being
polite and telling you.[How magnanamous of you!]

Your site is sending out a very positive message to women, and I will
respect that. Having talked to a lot of your members, I can say that on
a whole they are very well informed individuals, who feel much better as
a result of your site. Thus I have no desire whatsoever to see it shut
down.[Bully for you. I feel SO much better now! (What a buffoon!)]

Your own personal articles are revolting, filled with hatred, and
dangerously untrue, as is agreed by the overwhelming majority. However,
your articles do not make the site. You are not the site. Although
ideally it would be preferable for you to remove the poor ones, or at
least to improve them so that they were factually correct, it is not
killing anyone to keep them there.

You yourself are incredibly see-through, and I cannot imagine anyone
besides the most gullible to fall for any of your tricks. Anyone who can
read your articles can very easily see the great passion and energy and
completely ignore the hogwash that is your actual print. They can then
take the lessons learned from being that strong, and use it for their
own positive ends. Yes, an amoral leader such as yourself actually seems
to be working.

Once again, if this were a printed article, or anything that was
confined within an individual country's laws, you will be being sued
several times over for slander and misrepresentation. What you have up
there is quite repulsively false and damaging to people. However, since
this is the internet, and people recognise that you can get away with
that kind of stuff really easily, people are most probably going to just
laugh a bit, like I did, at how ridiculously full of yourself you are
considering how little you have to back you up.

In life, sometimes we need the little edges. And sometimes the
incredibly amoral can lead just as well as the incredibly moral or the
incredibly immoral. We all need a bit of each in order to learn the
lessons of life.

As for your personal attacks on myself, let me go through them...

Point 1: Answering line by line is the surest way to get your facts
mixed up and twisted. But I assume that that is deliberate.
[God forbid I should actually quote what he REALLY said...]
Point 2: First few statements there were saying nothing. Just showing
that you have a lot of hatred inside yourself. I don't need to answer
them.

Point 3: You weren't reading again. Someone who really cares about it.
It meaning the belief system that you are instructing. Who ever heard of
calling a belief system a him or a her? I laughed a lot at that one.

Point 4: Quote "It takes two to tango". You prove me right, yet still
you say I am wrong? Very odd of you.

Point 5: Armchair psychologists. That would be someone who, for
instance, analyses what someone says line by line with on the spot
diagnoses of what they really mean, without looking at any facts? Oh,
that would be you. As opposed to people who have actually studied and
trained as a psychologist, which would be me. [Yeah, yeah. You and every
other self-important blowhard who writes me trying to tell me how to "improve"
myself or the site]


Point 6: Here you are proving yourself wrong again. I am amazed at your
blindness. You tell me "Don't want to get used - don't be a doormat".
Well fine, okay. Yet above you claim that women who are forced into
doing something are being abused no matter how weak they are. So that
doesn't really make sense. Unless perhaps you are suggesting that men
are always the ones doing the abusing, and that women are always the
victims. Ah, but that would be sexist. The rest of the statement
actually made some sense, except that you used it merely as an attempt
to try to abuse me, which seemed to be a bit of a low blow, and quite
laughably inaccurate.

Point 7: An irrational argument. Okay. If someone comes to you and says
"Natalie harassed me", does that mean that you actually did? It might.
But it might not. If you had told them to piss off and started yelling
at them ( which I imagine you do quite regularly ), does that mean that
you had harassed them? You wouldn't think so, but they probably do. So
when does it actually become harassment? The only time that it actually
becomes black and white harassment is when a complaint has been lodged,
and the person who was complained against is informed of it in an
unbiased way. Otherwise the potential for abuse is just way too strong.
Oh btw, you harassed me, I think you should go to jail. Laughs.

Point 8: Someone who shoots down arguments. Once again using "he", yet
trying to convince me still that you are not sexist. What is shooting
down arguments? That is when you are answering an argument by quickly
defeating it. Something that once again, you practise time and time
again. So surely you are guilty of shooting down other people's
arguments? Or are YOU immune to guilt? Just you? A little rule for
everyone else in the world besides yourself?

Point 9: The admission of jumping to conclusions. I say that I got
accused of something, you infer, imply, etc etc blah blah blah once
again. I get accused of something, which was proven false, and I have a
lot of respect with a lot of people in helping people to deal with
similar situations. Oh yeah, and I am still very close with pretty much
all of my ex's. You'll probably meet some from time to time. Go have a
chat with some of them. Ah, but that would prove your misguided
conclusions wrong now wouldn't it?

Natalie, just so that you know that I didn't make these replies up, here
is your letter back at you. I give you permission to print it, and any
lovely little snippets that you can find out or make up about me. Well,
make up I imagine. Wouldn't want to have actual facts in your webpage
now would you. It might make you feel like an idiot for all of the
accusations then.

Cat


Send this page to someone who needs to read it.
go to top

Pause your cursor over each link below for a more detailed description

Home
Search HBI
HBI FAQ
   Rants
   Collected Quotes
   The Manipulator Files
   Nice Guys? BLEAH
   Links
    I'M NOT BITTER...
   Auntie Dote
   Honorary HBs
   Adult Books
   Kids Books
   Privacy Policy
   Awards
   HBI Sitings

---

Want to link to HBI?



  Want to know when we update? Subscribe to our "What's New" RSS Feed

(What is an RSS Feed?)


Get SharpReader - our favorite RSS aggregator - it's free!

If you don't have a Newsreader, you can subscribe to updates via email:

Enter your Email


Powered by FeedBlitz

Add this Content to Your Site

Copyright© Heartless Bitches International (heartless-bitches.com) 2000, All Rights Reserved
Copying or reproduction (in whole or in part) on any medium (such as in print or on the web) is expressly forbidden without written permission from HBI